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<p align="center" class="style17">Table of Contents<br>
25th International Workshop - Rome '08</p>
<p align="center" class="style17">
<a href="/2008book/weissinger-preface.html">Preface- Dr. Roger<br>Weissinger-Baylon<br>Workshop Chairman<br></a>
<a href="/2008book/weissinger-overview.html">Workshop Chairman's Overview - Dr. Roger Weissinger-Baylon</a>
<a href="/2008book/joulwan.html">Opening Dinner Debate - <br>General George Joulwan<br>Former SACEUR</a>
<p>
<p align="center" class="style17">Part One<p>
<p align="center" class="style17">
<a href="/2008book/la-russa.html">Italian Defense Minister<br />
Ignazio La Russa
</a>
<a href="/2008book/browne.html">British Defense Minister<br />
The Rt Hon Des Browne
</a>
<a href="/2008book/gonul.html">Turkish Defense Minister<br />
Vecdi G�n�l
</a>
<a href="/2008book/di-paola.html">NATO Military Committee Chairman<br />
Admiral Giampaolo Di Paola
</a>
<a href="/2008book/zappata.html">Admiral Luciano Zappata<br />
Dep Supreme Allied
Commander Transformation
</a>
<a href="/2008book/camporini.html">Italian Chief of Defense<br />
General Vincenzo Camporini
</a>
<a href="/2008book/zappa.html">Alenia Aeronautica Chairman<br />
Dr. Giorgio Zappa
</a>
<br>Part Two<br>
<p align="center" class="style17">
<a href="/2008book/baramidze.html">Georgian Vice Prime Minister<br />
Giorgi Baramidze
</a>
<a href="/2008book/chizhov.html">Russian Amb to EU<br />
Vladimir Chizhov
</a>
<br>Part Three<br>
<p align="center" class="style17">
<a href="/2008book/eldon.html">British Amb to NATO<br />
Stewart Eldon
</a>
<a href="/2008book/akram.html">Pakistan's Amb to U.N.<br />
Munir Akram
</a>
<a href="/2008book/de-la-sabliere.html">French Amb to Italy<br />
Jean-Marc de la Sabli�re
</a>
<a href="/2008book/tkeshelashvili.html">Georgian Foreign Minister<br />
Eka Tkeshelashvili
</a>
<a href="/2008book/stefanini.html">Italian Amb to NATO<br />
Stefano Stefanini
</a>
<a href="/2008book/buzhinsky.html">Lt Gen Evgeniy Buzhinsky<br />
Russian Min of Defense
</a>
<a href="/2008book/winid.html">Polish Amb to NATO<br />
Boguslaw Winid
</a>
<br>Part Four<br>
<p align="center" class="style17">
<a href="/2008book/tegnelia.html">DTRA Director<br />
Dr. James Tegnelia
</a>
<a href="/2008book/rood.html">U.S. Under Sec of State<br />
John Rood
</a>
<a href="/2008book/joseph.html">Former Under Sec of State<br />
Amb Robert Joseph</a>
<a href="/2008book/berdennikov.html">Russian Amb-at-large<br />
Grigory V. Berdennikov
</a>
<a href="/2008book/benkert.html">U.S. Asst Sec of Defense<br />
Joseph Benkert
</a>
<a href="/2008book/flory.html">NATO Asst Sec Gen<br />
Peter Flory
</a>
<a href="/2008book/sedivy.html">NATO Asst Sec Gen<br />
Jiri Sedivy
</a>
<a href="/2008book/pfirter.html">OPCW Dir Gen<br />
Amb Rogelio Pfirter
</a>
<br>Part Five<br>
<p align="center" class="style17">
<a href="/2008book/lather.html">SHAPE Chief of Staff<br />
General Karl-Heinz Lather
</a>
<a href="/2008book/fitzgerald.html">Admiral Mark. P. Fitzgerald
<br />
Allied Joint Force Command Naples
</a>
<a href="/2008book/ildem.html">Turkish Amb to NATO<br />
Tacan Ildem
</a>
<a href="/2008book/schuwirth.html">Fmr SHAPE Chief of Staff<br />
General Rainer Schuwirth
</a>
<a href="/2008book/acosta.html">Global Impact CEO<br />
Ms. Renee Acosta
</a>
<a href="/2008book/soligan.html">Lt Gen James Soligan<br />
Allied Command-Transformation
</a>
<a href="/2008book/bagnall.html">Former UK Vice Chief of Defense Staff<br />
ACM Sir Anthony Bagnall
</a>
<br>Part Six
<p align="center" class="style17">
<a href="/2008book/volkman.html">U.S. Dir of Internat. Coop.<br />
Alfred Volkman
</a>
<a href="/2008book/tozzi.html">Major General Claudio Tozzi<br />
Italian Defense Ministry
</a>
<a href="/2008book/homberg.html">EADS Senior Vice Pres<br />
Thomas Homberg
</a>
<a href="/2008book/shephard.html">Northrop Grumman VP<br />
Mr. Timothy Shephard
</a>
<a href="/2008book/buckley.html">Thales Senior VP<br />
Dr. Edgar Buckley
</a>
<a href="/2008book/harris.html">Lockheed Martin Global Pres.<br />
Dr. Scott A. Harris
</a>
<a href="/2008book/schneider.html">AFCEA CEO<br />
Kent Schneider
</a>
<a href="/2008book/patterson.html">Mr. David Patterson<br />
Univ of Tennessee
</a>
<p align="center" class="style17">Part Seven
<p align="center" class="style17" style="margin-bottom: 0;">
<a href="/2008book/grimes.html">U.S. Asst Sec of Def<br />
Hon. John G. Grimes
</a>
<a href="/2008book/lentz.html">U.S. Dep Asst Sec of Def<br />
Robert Lentz
</a>
<a href="/2008book/aaviksoo.html">Estonian Defense Minister<br />
Jaak Aaviksoo
</a>
<a href="/2008book/bloechl.html">Microsoft, Managing Dir.<br />
Tim Bloechl
</a>
<a href="/2008book/wolf.html">Lt Gen Ulrich Wolf<br />
NATO CIS Service Agency Dir
</a>
<a href="/2008book/monteforte.html">Italian Milrep to NATO<br />
Vice Adm Ferdinando Sanfelice di Monteforte
</a>
<a href="/2008book/lintonen.html">Finnish Amb to UN<br />
Kirsti Lintonen
</a>
<a href="/2008book/silvestri.html">Dr. Stefano Silvestri<br />
Istituto Affari Internazionali
</a>
<a href="/2008book/yousfi.html">Algerian Amb to UN<br />
Youcef Yousfi
</a>
<a href="/2008book/karem.html">Egyptian Amb to EU<br />
Mahmoud Karem
</a>
<a href="/2008book/tarasyuk.html">Former Ukrainian Foreign Minister<br />
Borys Tarasyuk
</a>
</div>
</div>
<div id="content">
<div class="story">
<h2 class="workshop_year">Rome '08 Workshop</h2>
<!-- InstanceBeginEditable name="Main Content" -->
<h1>
Welcoming Dinner Debate </h1>
<h2 style="margin-bottom: 0;">
General George Joulwan - Former SACEUR </h2>
<h2 style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0;"><img src="images/joulwan.jpg" alt="George Joulwan" width="154" height="190"></h2>
<h2 style="margin-top: 0;">
Moderator </h2>
<h2>INTRODUCTORY REMARKS: GENERAL GEORGE JOULWAN </h2>
<p>
These workshops have taken on a special meaning not only for Europe but
indeed for the world. Frank, candid discussions have been the order of
the day, and, judging from our earlier experiences, this discussion will
engender the same candor. As someone who has been through 14 of these conferences,
starting when I was the Supreme Allied Commander, back in 1994, I would
like to commend the workshop chairman, Roger Weissinger-Baylon, and his
team, for again assembling an excellent set of speakers and an exciting
agenda set against the background of Rome.<B> </B></p>
<p>
I think all of you will agree that this has been an excellent forum in
which to discuss freely and candidly the issues confronting the post-Cold
War world that we live in. May I also give to our Italian friends a special
salute for sponsoring this workshop in the Eternal City. Rome has witnessed
great triumphs, great glory, and also occupation during the nearly three
millennia of its history. The city has contributed much to our culture,
our language, law, science, and politics, and of course, as witnessed here,
to wine and food. </p>
<p>
On a personal note, it was to Rome in 1996 that I came to discuss the first
two months of the Bosnian operation with members of NATO and the Contact
Group. To the surprise of many, NATO was able to coordinate a force of
37 nations, separate three vicious, warring factions, transfer land from
one entity to the other, demobilize the warring factions, and set the conditions
for an election in September of 1996, all in the first six months and without
losing a single life to hostile fire. That has continued for over 10 years.
So, if you do it right, if you have the political will, if you have the
planning, if you establish conditions for success, you can achieve the
right results and I ask you to look at all of that in Afghanistan today. </p>
<p>
It was also to Rome, if I may give you one more example, that I was summoned
to meet with Pope John Paul in 1996 for what I thought would be a brief
photo opportunity, but which turned into a substantive 45-minute discussion
about Bosnia. It was like going to confession with the pope. He was well
prepared and wanted to know how NATO accomplished this difficult mission
while others failed. This story relates to our discussions now because
I discussed with the pontiff the importance of political will in NATO. </p>
<p>
At that time, 16 democratic nations acting as one created the conditions
for success: clarity of mission, unity of command, robust rules of engagement,
timely political decisions, and a U.N. resolution condoning NATO intervention.
We also discussed the importance of Russian participation in that operation
as well as troops from Egypt, Morocco, and Jordan. The pope wanted me to
know that the challenges in Bosnia were not only ethnic but also religious
and that he could help. His Holiness said that the worst day of his papacy
was the day his trip to Sarajevo was cancelled the year before because
of the violence. He looked at me in great surprise when I told him that
I guaranteed that he could go to Sarajevo the next year. That was the confidence
I had in our strategic plan and our political will. And the pope did indeed
go to Sarajevo during Easter of the next year and held a religious service
with Orthodox and Islamic clergy in the bombed-out cathedral. It was a
great signal to the world about the value of cooperation and reconciliation,
and a great lesson to me that more than just the military factor is important
in the kinds of engagements we are involved in now. </p>
<p>
In 2007, we started the workshop dinner debate on the issue of Russia.
We also had a very good discussion about Russia at this workshop, which
I think illuminates why this forum is so important. In 2007, President
Putin’s remarks at Wehrkunde were mentioned. Some of you saw Russia returning
to the ways of the past, others who Russia frustrated perceived the country
as a threat and not as an ally or a partner. A year later, today, you heard
a discussion that I thought was excellent, because it is very hard to have
such a discussion anywhere but in this non-attribution, open sort of forum. </p>
<p>
NATO now has enlarged to 28 nations, with the door still open to Ukraine
and Georgia. Missile defense is still being actively pursued. There has
been a change in the presidency of Russia—President Medvedev succeeded
President Putin, as you know. Let me quote here, because I think it’s very
important, a comment that President Medvedev made in Berlin in June, some
of which was mentioned today. To use John Le Carre’s words, Russia has
“come in from the cold after almost a century of isolation and self-isolation.
Russia is now actively returning to global politics and the global economy,
bringing with it all of its natural, financial, and intellectual resources
and possibilities…” “The end of the Cold War made it possible to build
a genuinely equal cooperation between Russia, the European Union, and North
America as three branches of European civilization.” He also said, “It
is my conviction that Atlanticism as a sole historical principle has already
had its day.” We heard the Russian ambassador talk about that as well.
We need to talk more about unity between the whole Euro-Atlantic area,
from Vancouver to Vladivostok. Life dictates the need for this kind of
cooperation. </p>
<p>
I do not want to keep beating that same issue, but I think we need to have
a little more discussion about it. What is the way ahead with Russia? Is
it confrontational, cooperative, combative? Do we share common interests?
Can we create conditions for mutual trust and confidence? What do you think?
Who would like to comment? </p>
<p>
Since there are no comments now, I will go to question number 2. </p>
<p>
We are now engaged in a six-year war in Afghanistan, with five years in
Iraq; the Near East continues to be a battleground between Palestinians
and Israelis; Central Africa is ready to implode from tribal war, poverty,
and disease; natural disasters in Myanmar challenge humanitarian efforts
of the U.N. and NGOs; energy prices have skyrocketed as have global food
prices. We will be discussing many of these issues during the workshop,
including what should be an interesting panel on civil-military integration.
My question to you is, How do we get international organizations like NATO,
the EU, the U.N., and OSCE to work together? Why is it so difficult to
get these organizations to act together to meet some of the challenges
that we have? Will the tension between them continue? We cannot afford
to have the duplication we are having now. When will it be time for these
organizations to come together and act together? </p>
<h2>COMMENTS DURING THE DINNER DEBATE </h2>
<p>
<B>General Rainer Schuwirth</B>. We may be forgetting that the organizations you
refer to—you could add the G8—may not have a common target or objective,
though as operators we wish they would, to build a stable Afghanistan,
a stable Balkans, or a stable Africa. And of course they have their electorates
back home and their national scenes, and the governments want to be reelected,
the importance of which is often underestimated. When you take the specific
German situation in Afghanistan—I am German—the question is not, although
it is posed again and again, why don’t the Germans go to the south? They
are in the north. The question is, What do you want from the next German
government, because we have elections in 2009. Do you want Germany to continue
to participate in Afghanistan or do you want to have an election result
that throws the German forces entirely out of Afghanistan? We have seen
similar questions in the Irish referendum, without any attacks or any bad
feelings towards Ireland. When we talk about values, we have to stick to
our own rules, and this of course makes life not as easy as we would like
to have it. This is just one piece of an answer to your question, George. </p>
<p>
<B>General Joulwan.</B> Thank you very much. Are there any other comments? Is
there some way, given what Rainer said about individual nations, that there
are some common interests, some common areas? I look at Africa and the
problems that are developing there. Is there some sort of cooperative effort
that can be made to put an end to the breeding ground for much of the extremism
and terrorism we see in the world? Is the United Nations the answer, and
how do we make it more effective? I do not think it can be done just with
troops alone. </p>
<p>
<B>Ambassador Youcef Yousfi</B>. I think that Africa is the forgotten continent.
The international community looks at the disasters, the wars, the diseases,
and the lack of development there without any reaction. One of the problems
is that in Somalia, Sudan, and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the international
community is unable to make decisions, at least to help the African Union
face these problems. </p>
<p>
<B>General Joulwan.</B> But the issue is, “What prevents the international community
from taking action?” Is it that each nation is concerned about committing
its forces or committing its budget? Or is it that they are waiting until
we have what we have in Bosnia and in Rwanda, a train wreck? Is there some
way to prevent the train wreck? To prevent the sort of atrocities that
we have seen? </p>
<p>
<B>Ambassador Yousfi</B>. There is really no desire to go to Africa for many reasons,
for political reasons, mainly. </p>
<p>
<B>Ambassador Tacan Ildem. </B>Your question suggests the need for more effective
cooperation among international organizations. At NATO we are dealing with
this issue very seriously. What we call as “Comprehensive Approach” aims
at more effective cooperation not only among international organizations
but also between the military and civilian components in an operational
theater and within different bodies in the same organization. I must say,
however, that such an integrated approach has perhaps been undertaken in
a very idealistic fashion by NATO only. In other international organizations,
for instance, the United Nations, there is a hesitation in cooperating
with NATO. Same applies to NGOs. When we talk about Afghanistan, we know
that many NGOs do not want to be seen as cooperating with NATO. They consider
NATO to be a military organization and they do not want themselves to be
associated with its work.<B> </B></p>
<p>
When it comes to the EU, EU-NATO relations are certainly something that
my country believes are of great importance. Nevertheless, the tendency
on the EU side is to see NATO as a toolbox. Whenever there is a need, the
EU just sends a wish-list to be ensured by NATO—substantial assistance
such as in-theater airlift capability, logistics support, intelligence
sharing. It depends on the safe and secure environment provided by NATO. </p>
<p>
I think organizations have to be candid with each other. They have to better
understand the circumstances and the modalities for such cooperation. Certain
modalities of cooperation agreed upon by both organizations are already
in place and they have to be respected. Effective consultation is required
in accordance with the agreed format. However, we do not see such consultations
taking place in an effective manner. When the EU wants to initiate a mission,
be it in Afghanistan or Kosovo, we receive a list of requests before such
consultations take place. I think that all organizations should focus on
the responsibilities that they undertake. NATO cannot be a coordinating
body. It can only be one of those who are coordinated. I agree with you
that the United Nations’ effectiveness is a must, something we urgently
need in Afghanistan. I am happy that the new Special Representative of
the United Nations, Ambassador Kei Eide, will be focusing on the need for
an effective coordination among different international actors. I hope
that he will be successful. We need to support the efforts of the United
Nations in that respect. </p>
<p>
One personal observation: Sometimes, when we deal with problems related
to effective coordination and cooperation between NATO and the EU, it is
as if there are two sets of governments, one for the EU and one for NATO.
Within the capitals, I think there is need for an effective coordination
of efforts for the work undertaken by different organizations. Comprehensive
approach should first be implemented at the capitals. </p>
<p>
<B>General Joulwan.</B> Thank you very much. Let me just follow that by saying
that one of the ways to have a better chance for success is with planning.
I know, for example, that the EU now has a cell at SHAPE. But it cannot
bring peace without the active involvement of international organizations
and NGOs, in my view. So how do you get the planning? If you wait for the
train wreck before you do the planning, you are not creating the best conditions
and you are putting soldiers at risk unnecessarily. I know it is difficult,
but we should more highly value the troops we are committing by doing what
needs to be done before we commit them. I think that some good, clear planning
by the international organizations and NATO would help. </p>
<p>
<B>Ambassador Jaromir Novotny.</B> The world is in turmoil now. The United States
population is deeply divided—we shall see what the elections bring. So
there is a lack of consensus. Societies in the European Union are also
deeply divided: The Irish referendum is not the end. The Czechs may be
the second people to refuse to ratify the Lisbon Treaty, and then the EU
will be in crisis. </p>
<p>
The war in Iraq also has divided NATO. Some allies in NATO support the
United States, and some allies refused to go to Iraq. It is the same with
Afghanistan. Everybody supports ISAF with words, but if you ask them to
send another 500 soldiers to southern Afghanistan, there is lots of trouble.
Elections will be held in Germany in 2009, so nobody in Germany will decide
that the soldiers should go to the south of Afghanistan. It is the same
with the other countries. The European Union is very rich, and rich nations
have lost the will to sacrifice something. Everybody in the rich world
would like to keep the standard and not sacrifice. </p>
<p>
Africa was mentioned as the lost continent. What about South America, Latin
America, Hugo Chavez? There may be a renewal of Marxism in South America.
Hugo Chavez is building a new axis, with Venezuela, Teheran, maybe not
Korea, I don’t know. The balance of power has moved to Asia, China, India,
Vietnam. These are our new powers. China has such reserves in dollars that
the United States will collapse if China withdraws its reserves in dollars.
China could do the same thing to us, and we are discussing what we should
do about the fact that we are becoming less and less important. Russia
is very rich. Russia does not need advice and Russia could advise us. What
have we gained? The Security Council has acknowledged Kosovo. Did we stabilize
the Balkans or did we start a new round of crises? This applies to Macedonia
because the Albanians and Macedonians would apply for the same status as
Kosovo. Would it be the beginning of a new crisis in the Balkans? We have
lost Serbia by this—what have we gained? States that cannot survive? </p>
<p>
Now we have Central Asia, including Afghanistan, and other problems. But
rich nations have lost the will to sacrifice. That is the problem, and
international organizations are now fighting each other about who will
bring the flag higher. The NGOs are the same. Remember when we were in
Bosnia and the NGOs were fighting each other? They did not want to be coordinated
by NATO. It was the same in Bosnia, and it is the same in Afghanistan.
It is the same in Myanmar. So everybody is fighting to be highest and is
only prepared to sacrifice a small bit. </p>
<p>
<B>General Joulwan.</B> In doing that, are we really concerned about the nations
we are trying to help and about the troops we are trying to commit? If
we on the political side cannot get clarity are far as what needs to be
done, I think we are not really supporting the forces we send in. Let me
go to my Russian General Buzhinsky. </p>
<p>
<B>Lieutenant General Evgeniy Buzhinsky</B>. I will try to answer your first and
second questions about NATO and about the interaction of organizations
in Europe. First, you mentioned that the United States, the EU, and Russia
are main contributors or main forces of European security and stability.
Maybe that is true. But speaking about the interaction of organizations,
it seems to me that the West, led by the United States, is promoting a
division of labor between organizations. NATO is responsible for security,
the EU is responsible for economic issues, and the OSCE is responsible
for mainly humanitarian issues: elections, human rights. But where, I ask,
is Russia? In this case, where is the place for Russia? </p>
<p>
In terms of security, we are not members of NATO; the OSCE is not responsible.
Six years ago, when the Rome declaration was signed establishing the NATO-Russia
Council, we thought that it would be quite a different story from the previous
fora, that it would be a fora of individual nations. What do we see now?
It is the NATO position plus Russia, it is again 26 plus Russia. Originally
it was 16 plus Russia, and so on and so forth. So that is the big issue
for us. Where is the place for Russia in terms of security? That is why
my president offered this new security treaty arrangement, which will include
Russia as the CSCE did back in 1975. But the first question is, “Why is
Russia so nervous about enlargement?” It is true that it is an alliance
of 26 democratic nations. But it was said this afternoon that this it is
not a club, it is an alliance; it is a powerful military alliance at war. </p>
<p>
<B>General Joulwan.</B> In Afghanistan. </p>
<p>
<B>Lieutenant General Buzhinsky.</B> Okay, but we see NATO as a military alliance,
and when NATO enlarges, what does NATO do first? It increases its military
expenditures—2% of GDP—and modernizes the infrastructure. What for? For
what purpose is NATO modernizing the infrastructure in the Baltic Republics?
Against whom? And against whom are you conducting exercises under Article
5, especially in the Baltic? We are participating in the first stage: PfP,
stage rescue, humanitarian aid. Then we are told, Thank you, gentlemen,
now we are holding our exercises under Article 5. We know the scenario
of those exercises. We have our intelligence, thank God. So if a big, unstable,
nuclear-powered nation in the East attacks a small, defenseless NATO member
in the West, might NATO decide to counterattack and defeat this country?
We ask, “What is this country?” </p>
<p>
<B>General Joulwan.</B> You know, when I had my discussions in Bosnia with Russians,
you agreed with me, or your leaders did, that instability in the Balkans
could spread instability to the rest of Eastern and Central Europe, and
that was in your national interest as well as in NATO’s interest. And we
agreed to cooperate. It was not that NATO was here and Russia was there.
We were together, we had a common interest. Do we not have common interests
in Afghanistan and in Iraq? </p>
<p>
<B>Lieutenant General Buzhinsky.</B> We do have common interests. We do. By the
way, tomorrow we will be discussing Afghanistan, and I would like to make
a small personal remark now about Afghanistan. I recently spoke to some
Afghanis who fought us back in the 1970s and 1980s. There is a sort of
nostalgia regarding the Soviet presence in Afghanistan, because the Soviet
Union fought quite a different war there—we fought it at night and in the
day, and everything was all right because the Afghan government controlled
practically all of the country. We fought but we also constructed a lot:
schools, roads, farms, and plants, and there was no unemployment, no drugs,
and we did not convene any donor conferences. We did it ourselves, quietly. </p>
<p>
<B>General Joulwan.</B> Where is the ambassador from Italy? </p>
<p>
<B>Ambassador Stefano Stefanini.</B> Just a remark after listening to the Czech
ambassador. I think that the West has been in decline for over a century
but still has not done too badly. We have to put things into perspective,
and if I am correctly quoting Secretary Gates, who was asked whether or
not he was concerned about Russia’s defense spending, he said that Russia’s
defense spending is still a fraction of the overall defense spending, so
there is no need to be concerned. </p>
<p>
My answer to your original question, Is it confrontational, competitive,
or combative, is all of the above. But what it will be depends very much
on what we and Russia make it. Regarding the question that was just asked
by our Russian friend, I am a great believer in the division of labor,
but I do think that some of the problems we run into sometimes come from
the fact that we try to have too many organizations working on the same
battlefield, which makes it more complicated. But the question asked by
our Russian friend as to whether or not there is space for Russia in this
should be taken seriously. </p>
<p>
<B>General Joulwan.</B> I hate to ask my final question here, but since we talked
in Paris about the new French president Sarkozy and he has already made
some comments about moving closer to integration with NATO, and since in
November a new president will be elected in the United States, I ask, What
are the strategic realities that this new president will face and what
do you say are his immediate priorities? I think this is a very critical
time. </p>
<p>
<B>Mr. Patrick Worms. </B>It seems to me after the exchange we heard this afternoon
that there is a little piece of unfinished business in this room and in
the wider European alliance. That business is the way that our Russian
friends and we behave with one another. In that context, I recommend to
the next president, whoever he may be, that a good start may be to buy
100,000 copies of Dale Carnegie’s <I>How to Make Friends and</I> <I>Influence People</I>
and send it to our friends in the former Soviet Union, especially in Russia. </p>
<p>
<B>Ambassador Franciskus baronVan Daele.</B> I dare say that the challenges any
new American president will face will be no different from those we face
now, be it Afghanistan or Africa. But how do we put the pieces of our puzzle
together? The problem is not the United States, contrary to what many people
pretend. The first problem revolves around Europe and the European Union.
Individual European countries have different sets of regional interests
but no global policy, and such a policy will only come about if we go further
with European integration. For that to happen we have to convince the Irish,
but as long as that process has not run its course, we will never transform
our transatlantic relationship into an <I>entente cordiale,</I> as it used to
be called between France and England in the last century. </p>
<p>
The other structural problem we have is the one we discussed this afternoon—the
place of Russia in the European security architecture. The one thing I
find fascinating about it is why people in Moscow continue to consider
NATO a threat. NATO cannot extend. I was a party to many of the consultations
inside NATO, and saw how many tries there were to make Russia a partner
in the missile shield issue, which would have had not only high practical
value but symbolic value as well. So the two questions are, “How is America
going to work together with an evolving European Union,” and “How is America
going to bring Russia as a full partner into some form of European security
architecture?”Only when these different pieces of the puzzle are together
can we start thinking together about the wider world, with all its challenges
and with security being threatened from far away. </p>
<p>
<B>General Joulwan.</B> Let me just piggyback on that by saying, “What is the
leadership role of the United States, for example, in NATO?” Has it been
reduced over the last several years? Is it important for that leadership
role to come back or not? </p>
<p>
<B>Ambassador Stewart Eldon</B>. I can try to answer your first question. One
of the things I think we are facing now is a period of unprecedented opportunity.
France has hinted at it, and I think with the arrival of the French administration
there is real opportunity for a new understanding of European and Euro-Atlantic
security. One of the most important things we all can do, and that includes
the new administration, is to figure out a way to capitalize on that. I
am not trying to put this in quite the same way as France put it, but I
think there is potential for a new deal, for a new understanding of how
the system will work. </p>
<p>
Another thing I have noticed is that U.S. involvement in NATO has increased
over the last couple of years. The administration has attached a growing
importance to NATO, but not in the old stereotypical sense, because ultimately
the Alliance is now a security provider. Part of the reason for the difficulties
that were raised earlier is politics and stereotypes, and they are part
of the reason for the question I asked Vladimir Chizhov this afternoon:
What are we really all about? Our other friend from Russia was not terribly
charitable about the NATO-Russia Council this evening, but there is an
explanation for that. It is not that there is a NATO position ganging up
on Russia. It is simply that the 26 countries do not agree with Russia,
and they do not have to be in NATO to do that. So I really think there
is a need to take a good, hard look at abolishing stereotypes about what
each other is. That is a particular issue between the U.N. and NATO, and
it also applies to NGOs. NGOs have perfectly clear and respectable difficulties
about working with the military, but in the 21<SUP>st</SUP> century there is a good
case for thinking laterally about that and thinking more widely about whether
the understandings and political agreements we have—some of which Tacan
Ildem referred to—are appropriate for all we want to do and all we need
to do in the current situation. </p>
<p>
<B>General Joulwan.</B> Thank you very much for getting at the issues and discussions
we just had because we need the kind of candor we just heard if we are
going to develop political, diplomatic, military, and social arrangements
and have some trust and confidence. </p>
<p>
I have always said that Russia is a great country with a great history
and that we have a great opportunity to contribute to peace and stability
in the world. Somehow we have got to find a way to do that by having respect
for one another as we go forward. We all want—and I am a grandfather now
with eight grandchildren, so I can say this—to create a better world for
our children and grandchildren. But what have I done to prove that? Are
we going to continue down this path on which all that we have built up
is at risk because we cannot come together for whatever individual, national,
political, religious, or ethnic reasons? Must these problems always exist?
I think we have an opportunity with the communications we have today to
come together and come up with a way to solve problems. The great nations
and the great institutions—and that includes Russia, all of the nations
of NATO, and indeed much of the world—need to work together, whether they
like it or not, to find the way. If they don’t, then all that we have sacrificed
is at risk. </p>
<p>
I think that we are off to a good start on this 25<SUP>th</SUP> anniversary of the
workshop. Thank you for your participation. I wish you the very best during
the next few days, and I believe that when we all go back to our organizations
and to our countries, we will have a great opportunity to find a way ahead. </p>
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