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<center><h1><!--title-->Transcribing English in Verdurian
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<p>Posted by <b><!--poster-->Philip Newton</b>
on <!--date-->12:22 10/1/01
<p>In reply to: <a href="200.html">Transcribing English in Verdurian</a> posted by Philip Newton</b> on 5:32 10/1/01
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<p>Mark <a href="200.html">wrote</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>By the way, this is posting #200 to the VV Bulletin
Board!</p></blockquote>
<p>Wow! And #200 is one of mine... I wonder what that says about my posting
habits. Maybe I should cut down on the quantity :)</p>
<blockquote><p>And, if that weren't enough, the date, 10/1/01, is
palindromic!</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, I had thought about that, too. Although my thoughts were along the
lines of "01.10.01 reads the same way if consider D-M-Y as when considered
Y-M-D". I never thought about M-D-Y order, perhaps because I don't find it
logical. (Tomorrow will be palindromic, too, when expressed in ISO date
format -- 2001-10-02.) And all the digits of today's date are binary digits,
at least when the year is represented with only two digits. There'll be only
three more such dates in this century :).</p>
<blockquote><p>RP??!</p></blockquote>
<p>Shock, horror :)</p>
<blockquote><p>[T]here won't be that many differences between his RP and my
GA, especially when filtered through Verdurian's restricted vowel
inventory.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes. And also because I tried to represent a rhotic dialect (by default)
in the transcription.</p>
<p>By the way, what do you think about <strong>ör</strong> for
<ir>?</p>
<blockquote><p>For a more 'scholarly' transcription of English, you might
look at the Barakhinei lax (circumflexed) vowels. Verdurian scholars use the
same convention for studying dialects and foreign
languages.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ah. I was looking for a more "approachable" transliteration. Sort of the
thing a newspaper would use when transcribing foreign placenames. Since it
has to be readable to the average layperson, no engs or funny symbols are
allowed, and I tried to stick to the letters of the basic Verdurian alphabet
(which excludes Cadhinorian <th>, for example.) But that gives me
something to think about when considering a more accurate transcription --
especially the Barakhinei suggestion for the vowels.</p>
<blockquote><p>Verdurian scholars use the same convention for studying
dialects and foreign languages.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ah yes, there are circumflexed vowels in the Verdurian font.</p>
<blockquote><p>The /I/ in 'bid' should be written <strong>î</strong>
(or i-breve), no?</p></blockquote>
<p>I thought about that. Linguistically speaking perhaps yes. However, I
consider <strong>ĭ/î</strong> not a really proper letter of the
Verdurian alphabet in that it occurs, in the standard language, only in
final position -- and even then, it is only written in grammar books,
apparently, and not in books or newspapers (a bit like vowel pointing in
Hebrew or Arabic, maybe?). So I didn't want to use it in arbitrary positions
in foreign words. But it would be an alternative, yes.</p>
<blockquote><p>English /k/ should be <strong>c</strong>, not
<strong>k</strong>! The latter is a uvular stop, like Arabic or Cuzco
Quechua <strong>q</strong>.</p></blockquote>
<p>Urk, yes. You're absolutely right. I knew that, but I wasn't thinking
when I did that part of the table -- just thought "/k/? /k/ exists in
Verdurian, so just use <k> for it", without thinking that /k/ is not
represented by <k>.</p>
<p>It should, of course, be <c>. I'll change it in my local copy on
shavian.org (re-writing history :). And thanks for catching that.</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>J</strong> is used in quite a few language of the
Plain (Flaidish, Ismaîn, Caizu), so it'd probably be an acceptable
alternative to dzh. (But it would be quite foreign-looking. If Jeerio the
flaid came to Verduria, he'd be well advised to write his name
Dzhirio.)</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, the "foreign-looking" bit was what I wanted to avoid. However, if
the letter is known and recogniseable to many people, then it might be a win
to include it. After all, Earth newspapers sometimes try to reproduce
accurately letters such as s-hachek or c-acute, in the expection that
readers will know what to do with them. (A better example might be the
decision to reprint an Icelandic name such as Þorgeir Guðmundsson
instead of Thorgeir Gudmundsson, which uses extra letters rather than simply
"known" letters with diacritics.)</p>
<p>I think I'll stick with <strong>dh</strong>, <strong>dzh</strong>, and
<strong>i</strong> for now, but will think about using <strong>th</strong>,
<strong>j</strong>, and <strong>ĭ/î</strong> (and maybe
Barakhinei vowels) in a scholarly context.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br>Philip</p>
<hr><i>Mark responds:
<p>I thought <b>ö</b> for <b>ir</b> was clever. I've run into
that before... I think my friend Daniel von Brighoff has used that,
explaining English pronunciation to Germans.</i>
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